August 03, 2019
<sgp_> meeting time
<sgp_> 0. Introduction
<sgp_> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
<needmonero90> Hello people
<sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/380
<sgp_> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
<sgp_> 1. Greetings
<serhack> Hi :)
<JOhNKmus> Hello everyone
<lh1008[m]> Hey everyone
<sgp_> welcome everyone
<needmonero90> Ahoy hoy
<sgp_> I'm reporting live from a world-famous beach in Wisconsin. Just kidding, it's not world-famous. But I am at a beach
<sgp_> 2. Community highlights
<sgp_> See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com/
<sgp_> There was a Coffee Chat led by rehrar last week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S5UotVgku8
<monerobux> [ Monero Coffee Chat - 2019.07.27 - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
<sgp_> Ecosystem related: I’m hosting a Zcash community conversation on the future of the block reward Sunday (tomorrow): https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/livestream-discussion-future-of-zcash-block-reward/34247
<sgp_> Does anyone else have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I was impressed by XMR.RU's report
<needmonero90> Kinda, what are the sections again?
<sgp_> yes, they do a lot of great work
<needmonero90> I want to talk in the right place
<sgp_> needmonero90: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/380
<sgp_> if you're unsure, we should have plenty of time in open ideas
<needmonero90> Ah this works actually.
<needmonero90> We have a problem.
<needmonero90> Konferenco funding.
<needmonero90> There was a shortfall, and one of our beloved PhD researchers (sarang) is now footing the $30-40k bill.
<needmonero90> Taking it extremely well, might I add
<needmonero90> I don't think that this is an appropriate state for things to be in, and I would like to propose a second CCS be created for the community to cover the shortfall
<needmonero90> I will of course be putting my money where my mouth is and contributing a chunk, it sets a really bad standard if the organizer is on the hook for overages in costs at the event.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> What caused this?
<needmonero90> I imagine that would be a massive sticking point to attracting talent to the position in the future, it's a huge risk
<needmonero90> Price fluctuations and unforseen konferenco costs (which admittedly sarang was not entirely unresponsible for)
<nioc> OsrsNeedsF2P: the market tanked after the funds were raised
<nioc> and before they were converted to $
<needmonero90> I told sarang that I was appalled that he expected to be on the hook for the costs, and that I would bring it up at the next community meeting
<needmonero90> So here I am
<jwinterm> that's a chunk of change
<nioc> needmonero90: sarang or surae?
<needmonero90> One of them
<needmonero90> Whoever organized
<needmonero90> May have been surae
<nioc> I believe it is surae
<needmonero90> Lemme check
<sgp_> needmonero90: did you read the full funding report? Probably good to talk to scooby about the accounting specifics too
<needmonero90> My bad it was suraeNoether
<needmonero90> I didn't yet, I just thought it would be appropriate to broach the subject here
<needmonero90> Because $40k is significant
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> It should be noted that he would only be like 4k on the hole if the market had shifted so drastically.
<sgp_> needmonero90: if you want to champion this, I recommend talking to scooby so you have a full picture of the finances
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Market shift accounts for literally like 85% of his loss. So not "bad planning" or anything.
<needmonero90> I can do that, sure.
<thunderosa> Thanks for bringing it up, I wasn't quite sure the best way to mention it. I've been thinking of some possible fundraising ideas though. I'm willing to volunteer for the effort.
<dsc_> apart from trying to recover the funds, is this something that can be avoided in the future? 1) Allow for dynamic/moving CSS targets 2) release funds ASAP
<sgp_> we can also consider other options, including some allocation for the next Konferenco CCS that will inevitably happen. There are a few possible reimbursement options
<ferretinjapan> You can't force a conference to be funded if people aren't interested in it.
<sgp_> dsc_: yes, immediate release needs to happen for trusted entities in the future
<ferretinjapan> The conference should appeal to the needs of the fundees after all.
<sgp_> needmonero90: is there anything you specially wanted to have answered, or are you feeling for support?
<needmonero90> I just wanted to make this a topic of discussion and explain where I think things stand
<needmonero90> I'm minorly advocating a new CCS for the shortfall, but I'm not too particular about where we go with it
<needmonero90> Just wanted the subject up for discussion
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> If we're being real, that conference will be the highlight of Monero's year, just in quality. Talks freely available on YouTube as a resource for years to come.
<sgp_> All right, please keep going with the initiative and let us know how it goes. Might be best to open a Reddit discussion too
<sgp_> yes, the recordings are very valuable
<sgp_> I will keep going with the meeting, but we can cover this topic again during open ideas if people have other comments
<sgp_> thanks for introducing the idea needmonero90
<sgp_> Any other non-workgroup updates to share?
<ferretinjapan> Maybe a focus on those types of deliverables should be emphasised?
<sgp_> 3. CCS updates
<sgp_> CCS proposals in ideas to be discussed:
<lh1008[m]> I suggest to ciber this shortfall with a CCS for it, but start on planning and funding earlier for future events (konferenco, defcon, etc.) Be better prepared for this type of things. Have a bigger budget.
<sgp_> “Telegram bot for Monero-Jobs group” (3 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/91
<lh1008[m]> Ciber *cover
<sgp_> Does anyone have comments on this proposal?
<dsc_> looks good to me
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Generally speaking I'm strict with proposals I support, but this definitely has mine
<sgp_> 3 XMR looks reasonable
<dsc_> 3 XMR is too reasonable
<serhack> me too
<needmonero90> It's like, ramen budget living at your parent's house low
<lh1008[m]> ENDOGEN was not able to make it. I'm part of the Monero jobs chat room. Alteady gave my comments, would like to hear from the community.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I wish more proposals were like this. He's really outlined the benefits of this
<needmonero90> It's a very good deal, if the code works as advertised.
<sgp_> Any final comments on this proposal? People seem comfortable with it
<OsrsNeedsF2P> >Something like "What would you like to do?" and then there would be three buttons that the user could press: "Request Work", "Offer Work" and "Create Proposal"
<OsrsNeedsF2P> We need this for IRC and Reddit too. I know the outreach team wanted to do something like this
<OsrsNeedsF2P> This is super useful
<sgp_> “A Monero Tip Bot for Telegram” (13 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/86
<lh1008[m]> The 3XMR was what he estimated for his work. He's actually really enthusiastic about it. We will have to see how he delivers of course.
<sgp_> We discussed this similar proposal last week, but I wanted a last call for comments
<sgp_> *last meeting
<dsc_> I honestly feel kind of bad for that 3XMR maybe we should advise him to double it
<lh1008[m]> OsrsNeedsF2P the bot will be open source so I guess we all would benefit :).
<dsc_> I'd be happy to fund that extra 3..
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I provided my insights on that thread, but I still think the Telegram tip bot is asking for too much
<OsrsNeedsF2P> It's definitely a good initiative though.
<sgp_> OsrsNeedsF2P: what # or range would you feel comfortable with?
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Well here's the thing; it's a custodial service that really will just be running one wallet and a very simple file tracking everyone's balance.
<needmonero90> That feels like something that should be done open source and maintained by core
<needmonero90> Like, the servers
<OsrsNeedsF2P> That's the intention ^
<sgp_> luigi specified in the thread that he would feel comfortable moving it with an agreed-upon host
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Luigi said he's willing to move it forward if a suitable host is found
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Let's review his funding points
<needmonero90> Like idk, I'm not sure we need to pay for this one? I think repurposing osrs's bot would work fine
<needmonero90> We could maybe talk to endogen
<OsrsNeedsF2P> My bot is non-custodial, finding a host is much more difficult
<lh1008[m]> I like the tip bot. That sure will also help.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Keeping wallet synced is a b**
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I like the tip bot as well. I think getting it out no Telegram is worth it. But his funding points directly:
<OsrsNeedsF2P> »Collect Feature Requests and Prototype the Telegram bot: 1 XMR
<sgp_> tbf it's <$100
<needmonero90> Prototyping is an essential part of any project
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> I think the hope was the core team would indeed host it.
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> I can ask them what their thoughts are for doing that.
<lh1008[m]> Endogen suggested once he worked the monerojobs.bot and be.working he wil add a multisig wallet for it.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> If there's an integratable telegram tip bot though, that would be much easier
<OsrsNeedsF2P> >Implement Features: 5 XMR
<needmonero90> OsrsNeedsF2P: you reminded me
<needmonero90> There is
<needmonero90> Briar patch has a SPICE token tipbot
<needmonero90> For spicy comments
<needmonero90> I can see if it's open source or whether they can share the code
<needmonero90> If we get the code, it cuts the work significantly.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Honestly, you guys overestimate how hard it is to make a tip bot
<OsrsNeedsF2P> All the APIs already exist
<OsrsNeedsF2P> The only reason the Reddit Tip Bot took so long to perfect the UX was soley because I was keeping everyone's wallets separate. Knowing as little as I did (no RPC, hardly Python), that would have still been a 1 day job
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> #makeitthenlol
<lh1008[m]> What would be a reasonable price OsrsNeedsF2P? Just give your thoughts.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I think 5 XMR to implement it is reasonable. I don't think any of his other requests are;
<OsrsNeedsF2P> »Intensive Testing of Bot on Stagenet Within one or more Monero Telegram groups / Bug Fixing: 4 XMR
<OsrsNeedsF2P> »Maintenance and Support: 3 XMR (one time fee)
<OsrsNeedsF2P> The prototype is certainly worth 1 XMR if there is really a solid prototype goal he's following, but unlike Endogen's request for instance, it's not nearly as clear or laid out
<lh1008[m]> What does everyone else think? I'm no coder so for me is quite hard to know more.
<lh1008[m]> But if OsrsNeedsF2P says it is because he knows. Those are my thoughts.
<OsrsNeedsF2P> But that is within the Implement Features category
<dsc_> I think OsrsNeedsF2P should be head of Python Monero robots
<dsc_> as such I trust his authority on the matter
<sgp_> To summarize, OsrsNeedsF2P feels the cost is about twice as much as it should be, and hosting still needs to be resolved. Overall, the benefits are generally understood as valuable
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Very valuable I might add; also, the condition Luigi set was already on the hosting.
<lh1008[m]> We could tell him that the community supports a 5XMR proposal and wait and see his response.
<sgp_> Perhaps the course of action should be first to figure out hosting, and then try to negotiate slightly better rates. But in the absence of others willing to code, we may not have other rate options
<OsrsNeedsF2P> I would even donate if it was only 5 XMR. 5/6/7, depending on what he offers.
<sgp_> OsrsNeedsF2P: please add your comments again after this meeting in the thread, along with anyone else who has an opinion
<OsrsNeedsF2P> Will do.
<sgp_> Any final comments on this matter?
<sgp_> Another reminder to Luigi/rehrar: please move the v1docq47 proposal, which was discussed in detail and received favorable feedback last meeting
<sgp_> Final chance for CCS comments
<sgp_> 4. Workgroup report
<sgp_> a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
<sgp_> moneromooo is taking a much-needed vacation
<sgp_> progress is continuing with various networking features and tests
<sgp_> rehrar: want to summarize the dev meeting from last week?
<dsc_> I have to get off my train. Cannot provide GUI update other than: pony is building bins, I'm working on I2P-Zero still.
<sgp_> thanks dsc
<maxfp> I know I’m coming into this late. Talking bout hosting. What about using Tari .org
<maxfp> Are we talking container deployments?
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Sorry. Got busy for a bit.
<sgp_> now is a good time to ask if there are localization workgroup updates too, or else we can skip that section
<needmonero90> Do we have a pirate localization workgroup yet
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> We talked about Gitlab/GitHub stuff and people have opinions.
<lh1008[m]> I will give a small summary from outreach
<sgp_> needmonero90: there was for one old version at least iirc
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Did anything else of interest pop up?
<sgp_> sure lh1008[m], we can do that for e)
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Not to my mind. But I may just be forgetting something
<sgp_> rehrar thanks
<sgp_> I can give an update for d) Defcon workgroup
<sgp_> Please check https://monerovillage.org for the livestream links (will be posted soon) and schedule (posted now). We will unfortunately only learn around 9:30am MT on Friday whether the events will be livestreamed. It's dependent on Defcon staff, but we'll keep you updated
<sgp_> e) Outreach workgroup
<lh1008[m]> sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/RRYzFHFhqHanRLjmjzmyNPQV >
<sgp_> Copy of link contents:
<sgp_> About transcriptions:
<sgp_> - All Breaking Monero transcriptions done.
<sgp_> - MoneroKon from 26/12 already finished. 7 merged and 5 in review process.
<sgp_> thanks lh1008[m], anything else? we look forward to your help for Defcon
<lh1008[m]> Thank you sgp_
<sgp_> 5. Open ideas time
<sgp_> It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
<sgp_> We have a good 8 minutes, don't be shy!
<lh1008[m]> That would be all. The rest of MoneroKon are in production. Every talk has a volunteer.
<lh1008[m]> Yes of course count with us
<needmonero90> So, I want to talk about skepticism Sunday. Specifically, people posting the same stuff repeatedly with no intention of following up or responding to replies
<sgp_> ah, the "uncensored version of this thread" person
<needmonero90> To be more direct, yes
<needmonero90> That's not skepticism
<lh1008[m]> I have one. We should be better prepared for events and shortfalls.
<sgp_> imo remove, easy decision for me
<needmonero90> Any objections? I can just blacklist the link from that thread specifically.
<lh1008[m]> Have never been on sundays skepticism. I guess I will also participate on them.
<sgp_> lh1008[m]: indeed, that has been an ongoing effort. MRL takes payment before working the three months to reduce volatility
<lh1008[m]> Yep I've seen those efforts too.
<lh1008[m]> Something else. We should support more those artisitc initiatives. Just take this into your pillow discussion >:).
<sgp_> we also need official Monero Village and Monero Party hashtags
<sgp_> #MoneroVillage #defcon27? #Monero #Defcon27?
<lh1008[m]> Thank you everyone. Have to finish reviews. Love you all.
<sgp_> We're running out of time, but think about hashtags and comment here if you have good ideas. Of course this channel is always open for discussions after the meeting
<sgp_> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
<sgp_> The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 17 August at 17:00 UTC. The next Coffee Chat will be on 24 August at 16 UTC. Thanks rehrar for handling the last one.
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Ye
<sgp_> 7. Conclusion
<xmrmatterbridge> <rehrar> Question on those.
<sgp_> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.