February 29, 2020
<sgp_> 0. Introduction
<needmonero90> Sarang suraeNoether
<sgp_> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
<monerobux> asymptotically: meeting time! :o
<sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/442
<sgp_> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
<sgp_> 1. Greetings
<rottensox> hi fam!
<needmonero90> Isthmus M5M400
<M5M400> oh a ping. thx
<rehrar> I'm here
<sgp_> reminder that until the Monero Outreach calendar is finished, you can add this one (Google, eww): https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=itmaraubkfoe4aq2oquoaogsuk%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=UTC
<sgp_> it has default reminders
<sgp_> thanks everyone for being here!
<sgp_> 2. Community highlights
<sgp_> See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
<sgp_> We should play a game later today. Conversation after the meeting.
<sgp_> I’m soft announcing our new home! https://communityworkgroup.org. We can use this page to more easily organize Monero Community Workgroup resources going forward. If we have time during open ideas, I’d love to hear your ideas! Putting this aside otherwise for now.
<sgp_> I published most of the 36c3 videos to YouTube a few hours/seconds ago! Surprise! I’ll spend time after the meeting organizing them and uploading a few stragglers: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSYUeVwrHBn07zTBg7fGHRW5Kn_Z3FJL
<monerobux> [ Chaos Communication Congress 2019 - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
<sgp_> You can share individual videos, but I don’t recommend sharing the playlist yet. It’s too ugly and disorganized currently.
<Mochi101> I seen they were coming out sgp_ - very nice!
<sgp_> 244 GB up and down yesterday, my ISP loves me :)
<sgp_> Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
<Mochi101> I quite my job?
<Mochi101> Oh, Monero related… sorry.
<M5M400> congrats anyway
<cankerwort> Hello community
<sgp_> haha I probably should specify, but congrats!
<asymptotically> i'm developing a new open source pool software, it doesn't really have any shiny cool features but maybe it will be nice for people to have a new choice :D
<Mochi101> Seriously asymptotically ?
<M5M400> asymptotically: nice. can you also create a miner that is NOT xmrig or stak?
<cankerwort> With decentralising features like what jtgrassie made?
<Mochi101> M5M400, RagerX ?
<cankerwort> Whatever that was called
<asymptotically> stratum-ss? i was looking into that but it doesn't support it yet
<needmonero90> what about the GUI?
<needmonero90> GUI has a miner.
<asymptotically> i thought it just used the daemon one
<cankerwort> Apparently most of the pool operators haven't got a clue how to implement it, so if it was plug and play it would do a lot of good
<needmonero90> isnt that a miner that isnt rig or stak?
<cankerwort> Especially with all that FUD about 2 pools dominating a little while back
<M5M400> needmonero90: probably, but an independent one would be nice
<cankerwort> I don't think the gui miner supports pools at all, iirc
<rottensox> sgp_: fifth paragraph here, think has as minor typo… https://www.communityworkgroup.org/about '… This channel hosts the Monero Konferenco, Critical Decentralization Cluster as the Chaos Communication Congress' shouldn't it be at, not as? 'at the Chaos Communication Congress.'
<sgp_> rottensox: yes
<sgp_> I'll also change all "Decentralization" -> "Decentralisation"
<sgp_> thanks for brining that up asymptotically
<sgp_> Any other updates?
<sgp_> Monero-related :)
<cankerwort> Isn't that a US/UK spelling thing?
<rottensox> it is. :-D
<sgp_> cankerwort yes but the organizers use the s
<rehrar> No, we need the z
<cankerwort> Fair enough
<sgp_> rehrar: lol
<sgp_> internal war here
<cankerwort> Or we can fight over it
<sgp_> We have a lot of CCS updates to get through, so for the interest of time, there's a small rule change.
<sgp_> Please comment if you have a workgroup report by messaging “Workgroup Update: [workgroup name]” any time before part 4 of the meeting, or else your workgroup section may be skipped.
<Mochi101> You two can start a reddit thread and fight over it there
<cankerwort> Yes everything seems to be fully funded
<sgp_> 3. CCS updates
<sgp_> Funding required:
<sgp_> All proposals in funding required are fully-funded!
<sgp_> Ideas (to be discussed):
* sgp_ clears throat
<sgp_> A Monero-centric Merchant Marketplace (70 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/117
<sgp_> we discussed this one a while back, but I don't think we've had a recent conversation
<nioc> please move SerHack 's request to funding required
<sgp_> …..anyone have anything to say about this marketplace proposal?
<asymptotically> i think its a good idea, but i think a better community solution would be a self-hosted open source thingy you can just set up with one command and you get your own store
<Mochi101> oh wow
<cankerwort> So it's like Monero flavoured Shopify?
<Mochi101> That'd be awesome
<rottensox> UkoeHB_ was crossing roads with this idea when working on multisig for ZtM v2 and the recent rbrunner7 idea of having a XMR-like OpenBazaar alternative.
<asymptotically> like how you can use monero-integrations with some wordpress things, and you control everything yourself. but it's probably not the easiest thing to get going
<endogenic> i suggest making the proposal more concrete
<Mochi101> Monero-Integrations is very easy… The only thing that may be hard for a new person is the view only wallet.
<endogenic> seems kinda vague
<cankerwort> Open source and self-hosted would be nice, but people are lazy and would like to pay a third party to do all the work for them (hence shopify)
<rehrar> all code developed is open source, right?
<rehrar> meaning anyone would be able to deploy this shopify
<rottensox> no. lol.
<asymptotically> Mochi101: but you have to manage wordpress and other tear inducing things
<rehrar> I mean for this marketplace
<cankerwort> That's the important question
<sgp_> well it's a non-starter if it's not, so maybe we need to clarify that first
<sgp_> can someone comment asking that?
<cankerwort> If the dude publishes the code so people cam do it themselves, but also starts a business managing and doing all the work for those that want that that would be ideal
<cankerwort> That way continued work could be sustained (maybe)
<rottensox> lza_menace lza_menace[m] was that you or that's someone else's proposal?
<sgp_> @lalanza808 on gitlab
<sgp_> anyway, I think we can move on since there are outstanding questions
<sgp_> Mining outreach, Ministo (40 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/124
<sgp_> lza_menace[m]: can you confirm if your marketplace code will all be open-source
<rehrar> I don't care about this one either way.
<Mochi101> I don't like that proposal.
<asymptotically> .seen ministo
<monerobux> asymptotically: I last saw ministo at 2018-05-15 - 22:42:21 in another channel.
<nioc> contact data centers and suggest that they mine/
<Mochi101> yeah nioc
<sgp_> I think the mining one is way too expensive for a start
<asymptotically> maybe it would be better if he partnered with a pool or something
<cankerwort> I don't think this even needs outreach tbh
<sgp_> asymptotically: that's a decent idea, pool provides referral fee or something
<sgp_> I also think 99% of the responses will be "no"
<lza_menace[m]> sgp_: yes, the code would all be open sourced. The goal would be to setup a foundation for a web shop that anybody could spin up and run their own. If people wanted to run a legitimate business doing it, they would have the tools to do so
<rehrar> Let's take a step back and continue on the marketplace discussion since we got answers. We need to make a recommendation to core. It's about time.
<cankerwort> I like the sound of that a lot
<sgp_> sure rehrar
<rehrar> since this went up a month ago, the price has changed? would that need to be edited lza_menace[m] ?
<rehrar> if so, to what?
<lza_menace[m]> I’m fine to leave it
<sgp_> the monero is currently worth about $4,800
<rehrar> meh, I'm down for it.
<sgp_> I think in any case, lza_menace[m] will need to make another round of marketing since it's been a while
<lza_menace[m]> I normally do $100/hour for consulting gigs, but this will likely take more than 48 hours. I’m okay to eat some of that though
<lza_menace[m]> Ok, I can do another reddit post
<needmonero90> Monero people generally dont charge market price for their services
<sgp_> $100/hr is very high for a fun side project someone can work on at their own schedule. Same with even $50 frankly
<rehrar> let's get a bit more feedback from the reddit post, but overall I see this as fine.
<sgp_> okay, anything else before I move to the next one rehrar?
<lza_menace[m]> sgp_: this will likely be way more than 48 hours is what I’m saying. It will end up being much less than my going rate because it is a fun side project.
<rehrar> no, mov eon
<lza_menace[m]> You guys missed the point of me saying that
<sgp_> lza_menace[m]: got it, thanks
<sgp_> let's finish up the mining outreach one
<sgp_> most people thought it wasn't worth supporting, correct?
<rehrar> it seems most present are fairly negative towards it
<sgp_> unless this person is a sales genius with good existing connections, I can't see how this is valuable
<sgp_> and even then, there are other ways to go about it
<sgp_> next one
<sgp_> Monero Integrations part 3, serhack (10 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/125
<sgp_> anyone against?
<SerHack> Hey guys! I have edited the price, asking for 11 xmr instead of 10. Does anyone have problem with that?
<sgp_> rehrar: is that a serious comment?
<Mochi101> I love Monero-Integrations
<suraeNoether> No problem with price change
<rehrar> oh, it wasn't a ye to what you said
<rehrar> it was an answer to "move?"
<ajs> no problem, support SerHack 100%
<sgp_> ah, got it :)
<SerHack> I have to pay taxes but this week I'll be focused on Monero Integrations since lessons are suspended here!
<sgp_> eww, I thought that was mostly a US problem lol
<SerHack> Oh, cool! Thanks for supporting me!
<sgp_> rehrar: pass along strong support (as expected)
<rehrar> will do
<sgp_> SerHack: did you update the price on there for 11 yet?
<SerHack> If anyone has any additional question, don't be shy to ask!
<SerHack> sgp_ I think yes
<sgp_> ok, next one then
<sgp_> Add new file (payment integration), pricode (30 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/126
<sgp_> here's another similar proposal
<sgp_> the details are quite light imo
<SerHack> As I reported on Gitlab, this CCS request has been created three minutes after I've created mine. It looked suspicious
<rottensox> seems like a no? it was initially closed and commented by rehrar. rather sketchy they open it up again, not following format even…
<rehrar> I mean, this payment gateway he is proposing seems to be different than Monero Integrations
<rehrar> if he says "image (sic) stripe" which is a cross-platform dealio
<rehrar> I think a "stripe" of Monero would be cool, but given his inability to format the proposal correctly (When instructions are easily available and simple to follow) doesn't give me high confidence in his ability to actually make it.
<asymptotically> you mean i cant just ctrl+s the stripe webpage and edit it?
<needmonero90> shouldnt we let the donors decide that??1?!one!?
<sgp_> any final comments on this one, or close for not enough info?
<rehrar> I will comment on this proposal and let him know it's improperly formatted and ask him to attend the next community meeting where he might share some of his expertise and/or credentials.
<sgp_> ok, next (skipping a bit)
<sgp_> Norwegian translation of webplate + footers + nav. Menu, Chris Avis (6 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/129
<sgp_> anyone for or against? speak up!
<sgp_> ok, next
<sgp_> 2 more
<sgp_> Monero Debian Package Repository for 2 years, Patrick Schleizer (60 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/130
<sgp_> Whonix founder wants these funds to make a debian package repo
<rehrar> People have talked about a Debian repository for a long time, and this seems like the guy to do it. Ready, willing, and capable.
<rehrar> Solidifies good relationship with Whonix peeps too. They like us.
<sgp_> Is the amount fair? I have no clue tbh
<sgp_> 2000 for a week?
<rehrar> I too have no idea what goes into packaging.
<sgp_> he refers to the bitcoin AppImage boing added; how is that process similar?
<sgp_> and did someone pay for this
<rehrar> I particularly like that it's not hosted on getmonero infra though. :D
<rehrar> the problem with hosting external packages is that it has to come from an trusted external source. I can't think of more trusted names in privacy than Whonix.
<sgp_> I'd like to see some knowledgeable people comment and ask questions before this is moved
<rehrar> What do you mean did someone pay for this?
<sgp_> did someone pay for the bitcoin debian package? or is that not comparable? I don't know
<sgp_> anyway, we can keep moving
<sgp_> last CCS idea
<sgp_> [Monero Aligned] Proposal for 1M5 Integration as Proxy, Brian Taylor (150 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/127
<sgp_> ErCiccione added some comments suggesting they felt the proposal needed work
<sgp_> this was first pitched to Bisq
<sgp_> (who couldn't pay)
<sgp_> the main milestone seems to be "Implement 1M5 API to support Monero transactions and document"
<nioc> he came into -dev recently and explained himself
<sgp_> nioc: cool, can you paste the relevant logs in the repo?
<selsta> I’m against the proposal at the current stage.
<nioc> sgp_: I might be able to, dunno
<rehrar> so…in comes all of the [Monero Aligned] proposals then?
<sgp_> it also looks like many things on their website are proposed/in development.
<rehrar> though this one directly relates to Monero more, it seems.
<rehrar> what was the consensus in -dev?
<nioc> there was a conversation but the proposal was not updated
<rehrar> ok, but what was discussed in this conversation? :P at very least can we have a date of the logs so I Can look myself?
<selsta> It makes no sense to implement 1M5 at this stage.
<rehrar> it seems we can table this one for now.
<nioc> rehrar: will have to look
<sgp_> selsta: good point that in general this could be putting the cart well before the horse
<sgp_> anyway, done with CCS stuff
<sgp_> not a single person said they wanted to give a workgroup update, so we can skkip over the entire section 4
<selsta> I can give short GUI update
<sgp_> sure selsta
<selsta> we will tag v0.15.0.4 today and Snipa has his build environment ready
<selsta> so new release soon
<nioc> rehrar: Feb 24 name is objectorange
* needmonero90 gets food and will be on sporadically for the rest of the meeting
<M5M400> yaaaay new gui
<selsta> also we will probably release CLI/GUI v0.15.1.0 in March
<needmonero90> wait, we have GUI now?
<rehrar> thank you nioc
<selsta> with Dandelion if it gets reviewed in time
<rehrar> selsta: maybe just push the tag back a bit then to get Dandelion in?
<rehrar> or is there some big bug fixes or something? what's the urgency before D++?
<selsta> HackerOne disclosures
<rehrar> ah, gotcha
<selsta> will see how to do it best
<sgp_> monero gui as unsafe as iota trinity wallet confirmed
* selsta afk again
<nioc> rehrar: also some brief comments on the 26th
<sgp_> sarang you had something too?
<sarang> Just a very brief update… worked on some code updates for CLSAG efficiency, hash function stuff, and transaction proofs
<sarang> Nothing too exciting :)
<suraeNoether> oh gosh
<suraeNoether> I wanted to mention
<suraeNoether> There's a creative inquiry program at a couple of universities where projects like ours can propose a project for undergraduates to work on over a semester. no cost to us, as long as we get faculty members to sponsor the projects and we can meet with the students weekly
<suraeNoether> Deadline for Fall 2020 is March 25, and I wanted to bring it up but it's certainly not urgent
<suraeNoether> I'm working on a proposal with a faculty member at Clemson to get a couple of unpaid interns.
<suraeNoether> re-emphasize: no cost to us
<sgp_> suraeNoether: I'm happy to help here however needed
<suraeNoether> if folks have ideas for simple coding or math projects that can be done by newbies in 12-16 weeks, I'm starting a list
<sgp_> I'm going to wrap up, but open ideas time is every time :)
<sgp_> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
<sgp_> The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 14 March at 17:00 UTC.
<sgp_> The next Coffee Chat is next week on 7 March at 17:00 UTC.
<sgp_> 7. Conclusion
<sgp_> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.