June 08, 2019
<rehrar> meeting time
<rehrar> community meeting time
<rehrar> 1. Greetings
<ErCiccione[m]> whooo just in time. hi everybody
<rehrar> So we've got quite some things to talk about. Let's get through them.
<rehrar> 2. CCS updates
<lh1008[m]> hey everyone >:)
<rehrar> who wants to move Sarang's thing to funding required?
<rehrar> or is there any discussion to be had with this?
<el00ruobuob_[m]> I do want
<rehrar> we need more 'yes's or discussion so we can move this process along :)
<midipoet> i think Sarang should work more for Monero
<lh1008[m]> <rehrar "who wants to move Sarang's thing"> yes
<el00ruobuob_[m]> yes yes
<midipoet> ^ > yes
<rehrar> cool, ok
<rehrar> if you haven't yet, please also comment on his thing directly
<rehrar> We have two stores asking for money for Monero integration
<rehrar> Travala and Keyi store
<rehrar> what are the thoughts on those two?
<rehrar> ccs.getmonero.org/ideas/ for those who want to follow along
<el00ruobuob_[m]> 1) Community could and will help. 2) I do not approve incentive merchants
<ErCiccione[m]> i left a comment on both. Don't really like them both
<rehrar> as well we still have the outstanding Rap song
<rehrar> if you haven't already, comment there with your thoughts too
<rehrar> but last thing to discuss I guess is the blockchain and statistics hub
<rehrar> has that been covered before?
<lh1008[m]> For travala and keyi, they can recieve all the support from the community for integration.
<rehrar> lh1008[m]: are you saying you are in favor of merging these requests?
<ErCiccione[m]> i suggested to the guy of the hub to come speak here in a meeting. He didn;t answer
<lh1008[m]> <rehrar "lh1008: are you saying you are i"> No, against. Sorry was not clear.
<rehrar> lh1008[m]: ok thanks
<rehrar> ErCiccione[m]: that's a shame
<rehrar> Alrighty. Please remind people to donate to those requests that are already in funding required
<rehrar> we'll have a few big 'uns soon
<rehrar> sarang and of course mooo
<lh1008[m]> <ErCiccione[m] "i suggested to the guy of the hu"> yeah, he hasn't answer, that's why I'm against.
<rehrar> 3. Workgroup reports
<rehrar> any reports from any workgroups?
<rehrar> dEBRUYNE dsc_ selsta for GUI?
<rehrar> ErCiccione[m]: for localization?
<nioc> it seems all the quarterly requests happen at the same time/schedule mooo, sarang, surae and outreach
<rehrar> nioc yeah, that's quarterlies for ya
<selsta> rehrar: waiting on fluffy :/
<rehrar> go ahead ErCiccione[m]
<rehrar> thanks for the update selsta :D
<parasew[m]> hi eyeryone!
<ErCiccione[m]> My last CCS as coordinator expired yesterday. I've prepared a reddit post that i will publish tomorrow with all the info of what will change and how. Thanks everybody for funding my proposal for one year and an half :)
<ErCiccione[m]> reguading the workgroup itself,
<lh1008[m]> <rehrar "any reports from any workgroups?"> yes, from outreach. Give me a moment to give a summary >:)
<ErCiccione[m]> i already spoke with pigeons and we have decided how to migrate to the new localization platform. Pootle is already frozen and from tomorrow i will start the installation of weblate on the server
<ErCiccione[m]> oh, the chinese version of the website got merged today, now just waiting on pony to update the server to announce it
<ErCiccione[m]> no more major stuff. Some more info about the Localization Workgroup and what will change will be on the reddit post tomorrow. I will link it everywhere.
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Any news about the pootle successor?
<rehrar> ok. Thanks ErCiccione[m]
<ErCiccione[m]> el00ruobuob_[m]: yes, weblate. I already tested it locally extensively. Works much better than Pootle and makes the integration of monerujo (and everything else) much easier
<ErCiccione[m]> and doesn't have all the annoying problems pootle has
<el00ruobuob_[m]> great! i can't wait to see it live!
<ErCiccione[m]> if anybody else have questions, i'll be happy to answer.
<ErCiccione[m]> el00ruobuob_[m]: very soon! :)
<el00ruobuob_[m]> someone needs to outreach to lh1008[m]
<lh1008[m]> Hey, ok a little summary:
<lh1008[m]> We have had a great succes with our compensation model with our contributors.
<lh1008[m]> 6 contributors have benefited from the compensation model for translations and reviews.
<lh1008[m]> We have had an active github repository with ~20 contributors. Not everyone is inside the compensation model. We highly encourage volunteered work.
<lh1008[m]> We have worked 9 different languages and have positively impacted the community.
<lh1008[m]> This is a summary from the Outreach Localization workgroup. Maybe @thunderosa can give you more details.
<ErCiccione[m]> (the repository he mentioned: https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/outreach-docs)
<thunderosa> Sure, so the RandomX Press Release has been one of our largest successes
<thunderosa> There's another big media outlet about to publish, but we had alot of pickups and good support for Arweave
<thunderosa> We're maintaining the RandomX page on our site as a resource through the fork
<thunderosa> We did a bunch of materials for MonKon including our first print ad
<lh1008[m]> ErCiccione: has been someone invaluable to the group. He has helped us reach translators and organize the repository through the Monero-ecosystem organization. Thank you erciccione ❤
<thunderosa> Russian and Chinese translations are nearly done
<thunderosa> A new community calendar is in the works and should be live within a week
<thunderosa> I'm sure I'm forgetting some things,..but those have been some recent highlights
<sarang> Any need for an MRL update?
<sarang> Or questions for me on my CCS request?
<ErCiccione[m]> It's a pleasure lh1008 :)
<xmrscott[m]> thunderosa: What platform is the calendar going to be based in?
<thunderosa> Home grown,…I'll be able to release the code to community, but it's a solution I've developed over the past 4-5 years for a localized event calendar
<thunderosa> Our publishing platform has very little outside code
<rehrar> so it will be FOSS then?
<thunderosa> That's my long-term goal,…I was going to slice the relevant chunk for this.
<thunderosa> It just always ends up getting to the bottom of my pile. If there's interest, I can make it more of a priority
<xmrscott[m]> Ok cool, hopefully the events are easily to consume via api or something
<rehrar> alright, nice
<rehrar> so msvb-mob has some things he wants to say
<rehrar> regarding the hardware stuff
<rehrar> go ahead msvb-mob
<msvb-mob> Yes, hello. The result of the plastic enclosure survey is.
<msvb-mob> That of thirteen people, most want a transparent orange colored enclosure.
<msvb-mob> 61.54% want orange and 38.64% want black.
<msvb-mob> 15.38% want opaque plastic and 84.62 want transparent.
<msvb-mob> That was the last survey, so the order will go to a plastics subcontractor soon.
<msvb-mob> There is a outstanding invitation to organise and write challenge questions for any future hardware releases that can enjoy a challenge component.
<msvb-mob> Whoever likes the idea of outreach and education at the same time, can participate.
<rehrar> can you give an example. This is unclear to me.
<msvb-mob> rehrar: Good request, this is very unclear.
<lh1008[m]> <rehrar "can you give an example. This is"> the same here…
<msvb-mob> Mostly with badges, but it could be any other hardware device release, there is sometimes a challenge component.
<msvb-mob> For example, at Defcon last week, the hardware was a tree of life that forced players to visit each village and transfer a token over serial to the hardware devices.
<msvb-mob> We want these kind of ideas, as well as simple questions that can go on a website and be answered.
<msvb-mob> Another example is simply make a list of questions and answers 'What is the dining philosophers problem?' 'What is the byzantine generals problem?' and supply answers in a easy to verify way.
<msvb-mob> That can be part of a challenge.
<msvb-mob> Whoever is interested can ask me for details or just start their own project on Taiga.
<msvb-mob> rehrar: That's all for me, unless there are any general or specific hardware team questions?
<rehrar> any questions for michael?
<midipoet> on that puzzles thing. dsc_ has built a pretty damn cool puzzle interface that coould/should be incorporated. i have tried to coordinate with needmoney90, but he is unsure if he is going to DefCon
<midipoet> i will try to co-ordinate on #monero-puzzles
<msvb-mob> midipoet: Thanks a lot, hardware puzzles and challenges is a low hanging fruit that may be cancelled from Defcon if we can't staff the problem unfortunately.
<needmoney90> Oh neat it's a meeting
<midipoet> needmoney90 lets make puzzles
<needmoney90> Fine, this weekend
<needmoney90> You've got my attention
<needmoney90> I'll get food then let's do this
<rehrar> alrighty, thanks for this
<rehrar> May I ask everyone to briefly review this comment on the meeting issue?
<rehrar> binaryFate: are you here?
<rehrar> perhaps not
<rehrar> once people have reviewed this comment, please make your thoughts known
<ErCiccione[m]> i like the idea of a combined donation to a FOSS of our choice
<needmoney90> So, I believe that the ToS or whatever says its up to the stewards what to do with "excess funds"
<needmoney90> I assume they'll be happy to do whatever we like
<Mochi101> Donate it to the Church
<midipoet> to the church through locked XMR
<rehrar> ErCiccione[m]: while I agree, we do have some massive quarterlies coming up
<midipoet> time-locked to 2045
<rehrar> not to mention the outstanding defcon stuff
<needmoney90> gotta have f a i t h
<el00ruobuob_[m]> couldn't it be saved for a new audit, like CLSAG?
<rehrar> I would say 1k to OSTIF, because they have indeed been pretty baller
<Mochi101> Audit Fund
<rehrar> and the rest to GF to be used for proposals
<xmrscott[m]> If donation, I would argue @OpenPrivacy pr something would be better as they're underfunded
<el00ruobuob_[m]> i agree with 1k to OSTIF, and the rest to GF for upcomming audits
<ErCiccione[m]> i understand rehrar, but as binaryfate says in the comment, those are usd money not in the fund. Would be cool to donate it to some project in need. It would create good links and also good PR
<nioc> is the issue that that portion is in USD and not xmr? therefore can't be returned to the dev fund?
<nioc> also there was discussion about the xmr that is currently left over that has not been transfered going to future audits such as the possible CLSAG audit
<rehrar> this is true. We may say to hold off on giving anything away and use this 4k+ for CLSAG
<rehrar> which, as I understand, MRL DOES want audited
<rehrar> sarang: can you confirm?
<nioc> disclaimer: I donated to the RandomX audit
<lh1008[m]> <needmoney90 "gotta have f a i t h"> There's no need of faith for donations >:). We also have a multisig wallet for donations.
<rehrar> one thing to consider here
<ErCiccione[m]> I see, but i would really like to make people see that we support the "privacy ecosystem" and useful project. But i see your point and i'm ok to what the majority decides
<rehrar> this money is no longer under stewardship of the core team
<rehrar> from what I understand, core team sent the XMR in total to OSTIF, and by the time OSTIF took it out, it's much larger sum
<rehrar> this means the money is in OSTIFs hands, and it's theirs to do what they want with
<needmoney90> OSTIF needs a recipient, they are fairly clearly the obvious choice
<rehrar> but they are being cooperative with the community rather than profiting from it
<needmoney90> stewards, that is
<sarang> Yes, I and suraeNoether would like CLSAG math and code audited
<sarang> I have reached out to potential reviewers to get feedback
<rehrar> in other words, it's not "up to core" unless they receive the money back. It's up to the community to tell OSTIF what we'd like.
<rehrar> I'd say to give 1k to OSTIF still, and the rest for CLSAG
<rehrar> that's my vote
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Maybe a bit of all of this: Tip the OSTIF, help another project, and save for CLSAG
<sarang> I am going to abstain from any vote, since I am closely aligned to the CLSAG work
<nioc> rehrar: was just about to say it's not either or where the $ goes
<nioc> el00ruobuob_[m]: ^^
<lh1008[m]> I would donate some to OSFIT because of his efforts and help for the Monero community, give to a privacy oriented project, could be CLSAG.
<nioc> and there is still 100+ left over in the CCS for the audits
<rehrar> is there? from where, nioc?
<nioc> besides what OSTIF is holding
<ErCiccione[m]> Those are leftover money, i think would be a good idea to make a donation to OSTIF and then donate to another project. I'm not a fun of funding something Monero related with those funds
<parasew[m]> +1 ErCiccione
<el00ruobuob_[m]> But CLSAG is not only monero related
<el00ruobuob_[m]> it's a global step forward for the whole crypto
<nioc> rehrar: price had gone up from when the CCS opened for funding and only the extimated required amount was sent to OSTIF
<Mochi101> +2 ErCiccione[m]
<rehrar> ah, I see
<ErCiccione[m]> i mean something that need to be funded through our CSS el00ruobuob_[m]
<rehrar> I wouldn't overestimate the CCS
<rehrar> things have been, and continue to be tight
<needmoney90> its also a bit more arbitrary than some would like as to whether stuff gets merged
<parasew[m]> can you elaborate rehrar ?
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Wouldn't 1k OSTIF, 1k FOSS project, and the rest to CLSAG be good to you ErCiccione[m]?
<lh1008[m]> <el00ruobuob_[m] "Wouldn't 1k OSTIF, 1k FOSS proje"> +1 el00ruobuob_[m]
<rehrar> parasew[m]: yes, the CCS tends to receive few donations overall, and many projects rely on some whales to be very generous. And believe me, they are extremely generous and awesome. But we shouldn't overextend on that generosity
<rehrar> in short, tragedy of the commons is rampant. Every $ or XMR counts
<rehrar> I would be fine with el00ruobuob_[m]'s proposal
<ErCiccione[m]> el00ruobuob_[m]: As i said, i think would be better to use those leftover funds not for a Monero CCS. Our general fund is not lacking of money, but beside that, i think it's more a principle inthis case.
<sarang> It would be nice to have a more complete network of other projects that might be interested in supporting work that could benefit them too
<ErCiccione[m]> i still vote for donation to OSTIF + donation to another project. There are two differnet opinions as far as i can see, should we vote?
<rehrar> Yes. We can hold a vote here.
<parasew[m]> yes sure, thanks rehrar for explaining, but what does in this concretely mean? is there a preferred way to handle this?
<rehrar> Give me a moment.
<midipoet> yes, i would like to know if this sets precedent, or is a single instance vote
<rehrar> 1. Donate to OSTIF and another FOSS/Privacy project (amounts to be discussed)
<rehrar> 2. Donate to OSTIF, another FOSS/Privacy project, and save some for CLSAG (amounts to be discussed)
<rehrar> midipoet: I'd say a one off vote. Something like this is rare enough to do a case-by-case basis
<lh1008[m]> I would say single instance vote. Things change in time.
<ErCiccione[m]> midipoet: I think we can consider it a single vote, it's a very atipycal situation..
<rehrar> make your vote known by number
<el00ruobuob_[m]> voting 2
<ErCiccione[m]> ah ok. I ended up being the only one at the end :P
<ErCiccione[m]> ah i see, it's all 3 in the second one. Fine for me
<sarang> Depending on audit timelines etc., CLSAG deployment may be more likely for spring
<rehrar> Ok, it's been decided.
<sarang> I want the math reviewed before the code, ideally
<sarang> in case there are issues we need to address with the construction
<rehrar> So, how does the 1k OSTIF, 1k FOSS/Privacy project, 2.5k CLSAG sound?
<rehrar> If you don't like, how would you adjust the numbers?
<thunderosa> I thought straight thirds had a niceness to it,…but I don't disagree with your breakout either
<needmoney90> I would first find out how much we expect clsag to cost for a decent audit
<ErCiccione[m]> 1k OSTIF - 2 FOSS - project 1.5 CLSAG
<sarang> I don't have that data
<needmoney90> as opposed to throwing numbers around without background
<sarang> Waiting to hear back
<sarang> from potential reviewers
<needmoney90> I would wait to know the cost before deciding on a split, personally
<needmoney90> but thats just me
<ErCiccione[m]> needmoney90: I don't think the cost of the CLSAG audit should be the way we make this decision.
<rehrar> it'd be helpful to know if OSTIF was ok with sitting on the money for now
<rehrar> if we knew that, we could table
<kinghat> 1fr 1fr 1fr
<rehrar> but I agree with ErCiccione[m]
<nioc> Solomon would say 1/3 each
<lh1008[m]> <ErCiccione[m] "needmoney90: I don't think the c"> +1
<rehrar> it almost doesn't matter how much CLSAG would costs. It's an ideal here.
<sarang> A proper set of audits will certainly cost more than 10K USD, I reckon
<sarang> depending the scope
<rehrar> So far, we have to us presented:
<rehrar> (OSTIF, FOSS, CLSAG is the order)
<el00ruobuob_[m]> Having over 10% of CLSAG audit already here should be good enough.
<rehrar> 1. 1, 1, 2
<el00ruobuob_[m]> so 1/3 each could be fine to me too
<rehrar> 2. 1, 2, 1.5
<rehrar> 3. 1/3 each
<midipoet> i think the fairest way it thirds as well
<rehrar> oops, the first should read: 1, 1, 2.5
<rehrar> I'm hearing a lot of support for thirds.
<rehrar> Is everyone ok with that?
<midipoet> for the record, i also think that OSTIF seem to have been extremely helpful to Monero from a practical perspective.
<rehrar> thirds means $1,500 each
<rehrar> which sounds fine to me
<midipoet> i would agree
<ErCiccione[m]> i'm ok with thirds
<el00ruobuob_[m]> yes third
<rehrar> ok, last order of business then
<rehrar> thoughts on the FOSS/Privacy project to giev to?
<rehrar> Openpriv was mentioned earlier, and I would agree to it
<ErCiccione[m]> wow guys, such efficiency in this meeting :P
<nioc> we are one
<rehrar> they're actually featured in the Revuo Monero this week, as they accept Monero donations
<sarang> I agree with midipoet that working with OSTIF has been invaluable
<needmoney90> we can donate to the monero project
<midipoet> Openpriv 9though not sure why they are merited above anyone else to be honest)
<ErCiccione[m]> rehrar: maybe we can postpone the decision on which project? so we have time to gather info/names
<rehrar> it should be noted that we will probably table the discussion here, and people can gather some thoughts, unless they had any immediate ones
<rehrar> ErCiccione[m]: this was more to get an initial idea.
<xmrscott[m]> 1) They're more privacy oriented 2) They are arguably more underfunded then other FOSS
<rehrar> As an example, people who don't know about openpriv can now go read up on it and decide if they like it
<rehrar> so if there's any other 'off-the-top-of-head' names that someone wants to throw out there, please do so
<needmoney90> do we have build server costs too?
<rehrar> so we can read up on it and decide at a later meeting
<rehrar> needmoney90: Monero? I think those are donated by Tari or Globee
<el00ruobuob_[m]> i agree rehrar
<rehrar> this is a fun problem to have btw
<rehrar> the opposite problem of the last time we did audits
<rehrar> either way, we're quite over time
<rehrar> so I'll go ahead and call the meeting here unless anyone has any last minute comments
<el00ruobuob_[m]> note to ourselves: make audits only during obvious bull market
<Mochi101> Make love not war.
<nioc> thx rehrar
<el00ruobuob_[m]> thank you all!
<rehrar> thanks for participating everyone!
<lh1008[m]> merge the rap song >:)
<needmoney90> thats got me so conflicted
<needmoney90> whats our line
<lh1008[m]> thank you everyone >:) ♥ ⛪ 🛡
<sarang> Also note that if we want to do CLSAG in spring, we could wait to fund the audits until later
<ErCiccione[m]> bye everybody
<msvb-mob> Bye bye.